To my shame, I have only come across The Mountain Goats in the last six months; but, better late than never.

Thus far I own (and love) Tallahasse and The Sunset Tree.

My question is, which album would you recommend next?

You gotta get some pre-2002 stuff for balance, so check out Zopilote Machine and Full Force Galesburg. Post-2002, nothing ranks as high as All Eternals Deck for me. There is no wrong answer to your question, though.

^Many thanks.

I had been thinking possibly of either All Eternals Deck or Heretic Pride in terms of more recent releases; I had also heard that the Coroner's Gambit was very good in terms of an earlier release.

All Hail West Texas would be my suggestion - the first one I heard and still a favorite for me. Gives you some of the rawer side of things without going all the way back to the beginning. Coroner's Gambit is in fact a good one, can't go wrong with that either. All Eternals Deck is also a good place for new fans, IMO, so good timing



Feel compelled to mention that FFG was much more of a "grower" for me so I'm not sure if I'd put it in the mix so early as you're just diving in. Either way, you've got a lot of great music ahead of you!

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We are the ones who don't slow down at all...

when i first listened to tMG, i didn't like the older stuff. if you don't like it at first, don't be alarmed. just keep listening to new stuff, eventually you'll like the old, or maybe you won't. thats allright too. as for new stuff reccomendations, we shall all be healed would be next if you were me. and i really liked heretic pride as well, although no one else on this forum does. of the old, coroner's gambit is my favorite.

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freethemillhaven1
^Many thanks.

I had been thinking possibly of either All Eternals Deck or Heretic Pride in terms of more recent releases; I had also heard that the Coroner's Gambit was very good in terms of an earlier release.

Yeah, I wouldn't jump into Heretic Pride just yet. It's better than its reputation indicates, but it's still pretty easily the weakest tMG release. For your next album, I'd go with All Hail West Texas, The Coroner's Gambit, All Eternals Deck, and Sweden, in that order.

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Mercy for the Diaz Brothers!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2012 04:53PM by Alpha Puppington.

Get Lonely deserves more love than it gets, just be aware going in that it lives up to its name (emotionally, the songs are really intense but they're great)

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We are the ones who don't slow down at all...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2012 05:59PM by SaveMeASeat.

Never have understood the hate for HP and GL. I think they're both fantastic. As in, top-tier tMG for me. I understand that GL gets a little monotonous in the middle of it; as in some songs run together, but I think that it's great for the entire concept of the album! Right? It's called "get Lonely". How much more lonely can you get than the pure feeling of numbness? Also, I understand that HP is a slight oddity in the catalog, but so is Nothing for Juice, in my eyes. ...and I don't see too much hate for that album? I think JW's drums and the organ on "New Zion", as well as the lyrics of "Autoclave", "Swamp Creature", etc., are some of their respective best. That's just my opinion, though. I'll shut up now.

tl;dr: Stuff, things, defense of HP/GL, calling out HP haters by comparing it to NfJ in terms of its outlier status, all of them, all of them.

As far as where to go after The Sunset Tree/Tallahassee, I would definitely recommend All Hail West Texas. If you're feeling even more bold, go for an earlier release like Sweden or The Coroner's Gambit, for sure. If you're feeling like hearing another awesome recent release, go for All Eternals Deck. It kicks butt and things.

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[www.last.fm]

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freethemillhaven1
^Many thanks.

I had been thinking possibly of either All Eternals Deck or Heretic Pride in terms of more recent releases; I had also heard that the Coroner's Gambit was very good in terms of an earlier release.

Clearly, opinions here vary wildly. See this thread for more...

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Alpha Puppington
Yeah, I wouldn't jump into Heretic Pride just yet. It's better than its reputation indicates, but it's still pretty easily the weakest tMG release.

You forgot to say "imho".

Hullo! Do get one - it doesn't really matter which (I just went on what was cheapest or easiest to buy, each time round) - you'll probably love it.
If you don't, just get another one. You will love that one, and some day you'll wake up with 1700 scrobbles on last.fm of the other one you thought you didn't really like.

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midgoat

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StatusFrustratio
You will love that one, and some day you'll wake up with 1700 scrobbles on last.fm of the other one you thought you didn't really like.

Oh my goodness, THIS.

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[www.last.fm]

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Johnp

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freethemillhaven1
^Many thanks.

I had been thinking possibly of either All Eternals Deck or Heretic Pride in terms of more recent releases; I had also heard that the Coroner's Gambit was very good in terms of an earlier release.

Clearly, opinions here vary wildly. See this thread for more...

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Alpha Puppington
Yeah, I wouldn't jump into Heretic Pride just yet. It's better than its reputation indicates, but it's still pretty easily the weakest tMG release.

You forgot to say "imho".

By the simple and obvious fact that no single person's opinion can ever be truly authoritative, it should be implied that those words are simply my opinion and nothing else. I don't believe it necessary to add a disclaimer to every post in which an opinion is expressed.

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Mercy for the Diaz Brothers!

Many thanks; lots of thoughts and opinions there to digest.

Interesting to hear that Heretic Pride is not rated by all. I had been sampling some tracks from it on YouTube to get a flavour before buying and really liked Autoclave and Sax Rhomer#1

Perhaps, on balance, I will make All Eternals Deck my next purchase and then see where I go from there.

Looking forward to my first MG gig at the Barbican in April



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2012 03:10AM by freethemillhaven1.

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Alpha Puppington

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freethemillhaven1
^Many thanks.


Yeah, I wouldn't jump into Heretic Pride just yet. It's better than its reputation indicates, but it's still pretty easily the weakest tMG release. For your next album, I'd go with All Hail West Texas, The Coroner's Gambit, All Eternals Deck, and Sweden, in that order.

Wow, I rather enjoyed heretic pride
I wouldn't consider it a weak release but would actually label it as one of the best. Strangely enough I prefer Heretic Price to tlotwtc(never figured out how to shorten that one).

Edit:
Read Alpha's last post. I'd tend to agree with him on the "Its obviously my opinion" statement.But when your addressing someone else on something as important as music, especially tmg, you might wanna make sure the addressee is clear that it is your dead soul that came to the conclusion that Heretic pride is weak, not the community.(Lol i hope that the humor is clear on that last comment....see confirming things isn't so bad....)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2012 03:26AM by meus spes.

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Alpha Puppington

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Johnp
You forgot to say "imho".

it should be implied that those words are simply my opinion and nothing else.

Couldn't agree more!

people on this forum just don't get it, man! heretic pride is a really great album. they don't like nothing for juice either. im sure you'd like it. the first person that i showed tMG to, heretic pride was the one that finally got him hooked and its still his favorite album.

I certainly have enjoyed what I have heard thus far of Heretic Pride i.e. Autoclave and Sax Rhomer#1

Are they representative of the whole?

I think one of the problems that people seem to have with Heretic Pride is that there's less of a cohesive whole to be representative of.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2012 12:34PM by shlack.

I say just listen to it. Start at track 1 and go all the way through. I bet you'll like it.

I'm not trying to hate on Heretic Pride as a whole--there are songs on there I really like. Marduk's got the Bright Mountain Choir, for heaven's sake. Ain't nobody going to object to that. But it is less cohesive, as an album, than many of the others are. New Zion's got that reggae-ish thing going, for example. There's nothing else like that in the entire catalog.

I would get all the recent stuff (4AD and Merge releases) first, since that's about where you've started and then start going backwards through the catalog because if you aren't used to extremely lo-fi stuff, that's going to be the best way to fall in love. Then again, I jumped around, so that might be the way.

Also, for recent stuff, I think Life of the World to Come deserves more love, so I will recommend that. This is not to knock any of the others. For instance, I too think Heretic Pride deserves way more love than it gets.

I think it's always a good idea for fans who started with the albums you did to check out the more recent stuff first, unless you have a long history with extremely lo-fi recordings and exceedingly quirky songwriting, because that's what you get more and more the further back you go.

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[hackberrygarage.tumblr.com]
[eavesdroppingvulpine.tumblr.com]

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shlack
I'm not trying to hate on Heretic Pride as a whole--there are songs on there I really like. Marduk's got the Bright Mountain Choir, for heaven's sake. Ain't nobody going to object to that. But it is less cohesive, as an album, than many of the others are. New Zion's got that reggae-ish thing going, for example. There's nothing else like that in the entire catalog.

The thing I don't get about this reasoning is that it's something that links HP to the much-trumpeted older lower-fi stuff - just with better production values. Sweden isn't of a piece in terms of mood, tempo, etc. Neither is AHWT which has Blues in Dallas another unique song in the catalogue. So I just don't get why this would drag people down on HP, but it's been posted enough to be apparent that it does.

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We are the ones who don't slow down at all...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2012 06:42PM by SaveMeASeat.

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SaveMeASeat
The thing I don't get about this reasoning is that it's something that links HP to the much-trumpeted older lower-fi stuff - just with better production values.

QFT. There's a herd of elephants in the room here but the closest I'll get to addressing it (for now) is to say that both albums you mention pre-date The Sunset Tree, which I see as the real line in the sand. Not Tallahassee.

It really comes down to a matter of preference--ie. there are sonic differences that I personally like and don't.

Bright Mountain Choir is one of the reasons I really like Marduk, not because it's a callback to older material but because of what their voices do for the chorus of that song. It's also a sonic difference from most of Heretic Pride. And I like that. I also cited New Zion as sonically different, but it's one that I'm less fond of. I'll point out as well that I'm not really shy about my deep love for The Life of the World to Come, which was far more different sonically (due to the piano, but also in part due to the stripped down nature of many of the songs) from any of the old stuff than anything on Heretic Pride was.

I don't think that Old tMG [always/necessarily >] New tMG, it's not a nostalgia argument. It'd be unfair and hypocritical of me to even make a nostalgia argument seeing as how I wasn't a fan before 4AD. Quantitatively speaking we've got more post-4AD switch albums than "boombox" albums now, and I think JD's songwriting has continued to improve throughout his career, though there are gems everywhere.

But back to my original point: It really is all a matter of personal opinion. As I said, I don't hate Heretic Pride. There are songs on it that I really enjoy. There are songs on it that I enjoy less. This is true of any album, it's just the ratio that varies. On albums I say I "like more," it's because I've connected with more of the songs. The same goes for albums I didn't connect with as much, like Heretic Pride or AED. I know plenty of people who disagree with me on those and that's fine.

It's very rare that an entire album beginning to end appeals equally strongly to me, and in my opinion there isn't one in the entire Mountain Goats catalog that doesn't have at least one song I care for noticeably less than the others. But that's fair--there are so many songs in the catalog to find and to cherish and to spend time with that I don't have to worry about the ones that I personally don't connect with. That's a blessing. What's also a blessing is that tMG puts out so much material that if there is an album I'm less fond of I'm not stuck with it for five years, growing bitter and resentful about my own personal opinion in a way that isn't fair to the artist. And another blessing is that this fan community is by and large made up of exceedingly cool people, and almost every one of them that I have met or interacted with in an extra-forum capacity has been wonderful and kind. These are all good things.

TL,DR: There is way too much material in the Mountain Goats catalog to make any bold and sweeping statements about any segment about it, and therefore we should not do this. This is a good thing.

PS-- I always hated how "TL;DR" was abbreviated with a semicolon. Semicolons require independent clauses, of which "Too Long" is not one, lacking both a subject and a verb. It is not a clause at all; it is a phrase.

Well saying you like an album more when you like more of the songs is kind of on-the-nose obvious (it's true for me and, I'm sure, everyone), I was just getting at the whole "no singular narrative sweep" kind of argument which for me doesn't really detract from things.

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shlack
I think one of the problems that people seem to have with Heretic Pride is that there's less of a cohesive whole to be representative of.

This is what I was saying I don't get. It's never been a requirement that a whole album have a big narrative sweep or unified sound (and it's not a characteristic of most of the catalogue) to be enjoyable, so people knocking HP for being more of mix/grab bag stylistically is what I was responding to.

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We are the ones who don't slow down at all...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2012 10:58PM by SaveMeASeat.