i'll have to put up some covers i've been working on, just in case my particular, er, style catches anyone's ear and they want to collab.

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let's get dressed up in costumes and dance by the bar.

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betamax
i'd even be up for a collab, but the danger there is that my lo-fi, shabby approach to recording, singing and playing would be at odds with some of the better produced/more establiished folks. I doubt i'd be able to bring anything to that particular table and would probably just limit the creativity that people working alone would have.

That's part of the fun. It wouldn't be limiting, but rather would place interesting restrictions which would allow for creativity to flourish in different ways.

But if going for a Tallahassee collaboration-based compilation, there'd be the question of what would happen to the already finished songs by those who tried to get onto TTT.

I'm all for a Tallahassee Turns Ten Two though, one way or the other. And I could probably hoste the website and actual audio files too, if needed.

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Why's everyone in this thread a f***ing Mountain Goats fan?!

Kirkeby Kritikk • Kvitter

I think it'd probably be best to keep a forum-based one as separate from the one TTT is putting together as possible, just for confusion's sake as well as for not trying to look like we're trying to steal that one's thunder - especially since it sounds like they've got quite the roster of pros lined up for it and this will be more another labor of fan-love on our end. That'd likely include its own name, which I've tried to think of but people can work on.


I've contacted some of those involved with heading up the last one, once we chat about what the process might look like and the details that need to be nailed down, I'll start a thread for this on Monday.

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EvilEivind
But if going for a Tallahassee collaboration-based compilation, there'd be the question of what would happen to the already finished songs by those who tried to get onto TTT.

Well we've had great sites presenting the music these last couple times - maybe site-only bonus tracks? I mean people have recorded covers, posted them here in that thread, then not had that song on previous forum comps IIRC. Shouldn't be a big deal.

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We are the ones who don't slow down at all...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2012 09:57AM by SaveMeASeat.

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SaveMeASeat
That'd likely include its own name, which I've tried to think of but people can work on.

Always thought Tallahassee should have been called The Sunshine State.

There was a contemporaneous John Sayles movie of that name and there were numerous parallels. I think the phrase "old college try" got a look in and one of the characters talked about being/wanting to be an oceanographer. There were more (and more obvious ones), but I'd need to rewatch. Anyway, that's one idea.

i agree that any forum project should distance itself from the TtT project.

That one deserves its own space and its own thing

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let's get dressed up in costumes and dance by the bar.

I just read this article/interview about Tallahassee.

[www.thedaily.com]

It's pretty good, nothing particularly new about an album of 10 years ago. It also makes me feel bad for being one of those really big super fans and reminds me on why I try to distance myself from that now.

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I've got big plans. ◊ Talking Blanket ◊ Yay, Butts! LOL!

I hate this article and I hate the fucking New York magazine article it mentions. What is the point of this article anyways? Again, that Mountain Goats fans are needy and weird. Well, he doesn't make any reference to the dumb ass, closeted misogynists who have such a hard-on for golf that they are willing to close their eyes to an organization that refuses entry to women. equality is great in theory, but if it messes with my fanatical devotion to a tiny white ball, i'm going to have to give it a pass this time. or all the moronic basketball junkies more than happy to avert their gaze from any domestic abuse or (admittedly, far fewer) pedophiles that haunt their stupid sports.

No, this emptyhead has to focus an entire article on a slanted, inaccurate, overdone and mindless view of a small, small segment of an already small fan base that clings desperately to their Sweden vinyl and Brownies 96 tape, all the while ignoring the far bigger segment of the fan base that waits anxiously but patiently for new work, and fill halls on two continents for a show of almost entirely new work, set to a soundtrack of middle-aged women chanting in latin. didn't see anyone pining for lo-fi in that particular theater, which had some of the best acoustics i've ever heard.

And this dumbass writer doesn't like Sunset Tree? Not lo-fi enough for him? So, that means that he puts his nose up to Get Lonely, Heretic Pride, Moon Colony Bloodbath, Satanic Messiah, Black Pear Tree, LotWtC, AED and Transcendetal Youth? That is, what I like to call, not a Mountain Goats fan, but someone who liked a couple of albums 10 years ago because it was hip, and has been satisfied to suck on the teet of his 15 minutes of hipster cool ever since, scared and resentful of any new output that varies at all from the sound of those albums, which dooms all other MGs albums, because the greatness of the band is that each album has its own sound, distinctive from the next.

This brainless dopey dumb dumb screamed Judas at Dylan.

This fragile scribe is broken. And I wish he'd stop describing himself as a Mountain Goats fan. He's embarrassing.

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The first thing that distinguishes a writer is that he is most alive when alone. - Martin Amis



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2012 03:58PM by Wild Creature.

WC, I'm sorry to say this but your rebuttle to the article has made my day. I hope it didn't put you in too bad a mood. The guy that wrote it does remind me of an old roommate that only liked the song No Children and said "after No Children it seems like John stopped trying".

ETA: Also how awkward must that interview have been for JD? The article really makes you feel bad for him with the weirdo fans.

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I've got big plans. ◊ Talking Blanket ◊ Yay, Butts! LOL!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2012 12:33PM by dollabill.

and to continue my rant for a moment, I saw Jeff Mangum last night. His voice was incredibly strong and he had incredible command over the songs. Songs that were, as far as I could tell, all 15 years old or more. It strikes me that, this small sub-set of Mountain Goats fans that are stuck in Sweden-era Mountain Goats would have preferred JD to do a Mangum, and disappear for 15 years, and then show up and play those old songs again, and nothing more and no new songs or takes on old songs offered.

But, you know what, as much as I enjoyed those songs and the set last night, I have no interest in seeing it again, even though he's playing two more nights tonight and tomorrow in Oakland (whereas, if the MGs played three nights in a row, you couldn't pull me away from it). In a way, the Mangum show was really quite sad -- a true nostalgia show, even though the songs were performed well and passionately, they were still 15 years old and really not changed at all. For me, and I believe, most Mountain Goats fans, a wonderful part of the band is this tremendous catalog of music, with lyrical and musical chances taken, tryed out and messed around with on tour, so we are bestowed with a true, pure living and evolving catalog of music. I love Jeff Mangum and his voice was crazy strong last night, but I left the show last night feeling like I left a nostalgia show, and Mangum really was just a two-headed boy tied to strings in a glass jar of formaldehyde, preserved but not quite real, and we were all standing there tapping on the glass.

and i am so thankful that is not what the mountain goats have become.

rant over. nothing more to see here.

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The first thing that distinguishes a writer is that he is most alive when alone. - Martin Amis



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2012 01:17PM by Wild Creature.

I would hate for JD to go the route of Jeff Mangum, I also have doubts that the author of that article was a fan from the Sweden days and decided to hate the new albums. He didn't come off that way in the article, I'd be willing to bet that his first album was The Sunset Tree and then he decided to like the older stuff for some cred. That's not true. That's a rotten thing to say. That's a damnable lie.

I don't think JD has put out a bad album his entire music career. You and I have spoke about how my dislike for TLOTWTC but it's not a bad album and my feelings are just from a stylistic point of view. I dislike the piano songs in general and that's just because I grew up listening to loud fast rock and punk music and will always prefer that. After we spoke though I went back and listened and they are all wonderful songs.

I also like the quote "I am really, aggressively and reactionarily anti-nostalgia." Sure that puts away the idea of JD cashing in and doing a string of dates playing Zopilote Machine only concerts but from what I've learned, recently going to the Weakerthans Reconstruction Site concert, is that it's not much different from blasting the CD. It's also what makes every concert different and why you can spend a week going to 3 shows in a row and completely feel satisfied.

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I've got big plans. ◊ Talking Blanket ◊ Yay, Butts! LOL!

WC completely articulated why I dislike Jeff Mangum, except that I found Aeroplane a chore to listen to in the first place, which I suppose makes what he's doing now a little more intolerable. Though I think regardless I'd still think every song he sings is just screaming "look at how good I used to be!" I mean I can understand if it were just special occasions, like when he went to OWS, but you're no better than pixies now.

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1840 - Hounds in Sonora, Mexico, invent music, write bogus "History of Music" to preserve anonymity.

Laughin Out Loud



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2012 02:05PM by Mr Glass.

WC, I just want to say something positive to you regarding those two posts.

Well said.


And re: MrGlass - I like NMH's few albums, and I'd be willing to give an artist a year or so to revisit 15 year old albums that have a solid following. But if he continues to tour for a longer period of time on just old stuff, then I might be with you on that.

and as for the ZM comment, db, no matter how amazing the reality would be, the fantasy of it always will trump it.
I think the closest thing to nostalgia we'll get from JD are when he auctions off rarities, and you could argue Sir Arne's Treasure was something of a nostalgia/tribute.

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1840 - Hounds in Sonora, Mexico, invent music, write bogus "History of Music" to preserve anonymity.

Laughin Out Loud

I'm still hoping for a box set or two of re-releases and rarities. And that tMG will eventually start doing electronic music.

Progress, but still allowing oneself dips into nostalgia.

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Why's everyone in this thread a f***ing Mountain Goats fan?!

Kirkeby Kritikk • Kvitter

For me it also depends on the artist we're talking about. With JD I'd jump at a chance to hear new stuff over the old, for artists like Dave Matthews all I want is Crash Into Me* and I'll be on my way.

But tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward; upward, not forward; and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom!


*anyone get this obscure tMG reference?

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I've got big plans. ◊ Talking Blanket ◊ Yay, Butts! LOL!

.

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My music:
[www.facebook.com]
[jamisonmurphy.bandcamp.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2012 04:34PM by Jamison.

WC: thank you for summing up what I really disliked about that article; it put me in such a weird funk after I read it & having read your response I feel much better. I can't understand the appeal of being a 'I only like the lo-fi stuff' tMG fan – if you're going to call yourself a fan of a band whose entire discography (more or less) is comprised of growers-not-showers, then why would you suddenly cut yourself off once the tape hiss goes away? The whole process of getting into new songs – being skeptical and uncertain at first, then getting some little turn of phrase stuck in my head, then that one lyric compelling me to go back and give the song another listen & then many more after that until I see exactly what is wonderful about it and what I missed in those early listens – that is what in my humble opinion is absolutely great about being a tMG fan.

It's so lovely to be surprised like that, to end up loving something so unexpected, and it's how I went from hearing WSABH playing in some fucking hipster store in Minneapolis and thinking to myself 'god what the fuck is this the guy can't even sing'* to being someone who sings/shouts along to 'No I Can't' as if the world were ending & this is the last & only message I have for my good friends left on this earth. It works in both directions, and that's why tLotWtC is my favorite and the Coroner's Gambit is my second favorite. And yeah, it's why I am what you might call one of the icky superfan types & why I rely on those songs for personal myths when times get tough: they're characters and stories that I've spent a long time forming a nuanced relationship with and that have a lot of personal weight for me. But my good golly gosh that certainly doesn't mean I think JD and I are soulmates and BFFs or that I am some sort of worshipper (though I do kind of really want to ask him to sign my bible just because I think it'd be funny: 'I know you didn't write this, but...')

I mean I know everyone's got their own tastes 'n all, but it rather hits a nerve when us scummy forum kids are frequently portrayed as being in with this only-listens-to-lo-fi-spews-vitriol-about-the-new-stuff type of fan. Whatevs. Everyone's gotta write what sounds most exciting & what will get people talking and I guess that is just their job and you can't seriously fault people for writing silly things on the internet so you may formally consider me 'over it'

*in my defense, I was 15 and already enough of a teenage music snob to think I was too good for the Decemberists (for example), and if you're wondering: the lyric that caught my ear and made me think 'alright I'll give them a try I guess' was 'the things that you've got coming will do things that you're afraid to'

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The gist of the article was Darnielle’s growing audience was causing him actual physical discomfort, to the point that his anxiety landed him in a Swedish emergency room in 2007.

i don't think the second clause follows from the first.

I only like his lofi stuff too, I intentionally run down the quality of his new stuff to 96kbps and make sure my ears are fairly damaged before I see him live so that the crisp sound of him on the PA is dampened.

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1840 - Hounds in Sonora, Mexico, invent music, write bogus "History of Music" to preserve anonymity.

Laughin Out Loud

Just for my 2¢ on that article, the author said he liked the lo-fi stuff, yeah, but I don't think that's an aesthetic choice or a carefully articulated pro-nostalgia position so much as it reflects the lyric content--he says that what he doesn't really like about The Sunset Tree (and by extension, the later stuff, though that doesn't really get mentioned and this doesn't really apply to it, so maybe not the later stuff) is that it's autobiographical, as opposed to fictional.

The fictional aspect is crucial to the entire article, and is an aspect of the article that I really liked. His argument about the fans w/JD was that it's complex to relate to someone singing in the first person, even if what you're actually relating to is the fictional story. JD often mentioned this "back-in-the-day" with his frequent comments about how people would think he was telling true stories while he kept insisting on their fabrication. That's the disconnect that the author is presenting in his article; he wants to relate to JD but he's disappointed to find that whom he's relating to are the Alpha Couple, who aren't real. He spends the article and his time in Tallahassee chasing them but they are not and can never be found.

Thus, when JD starts writing in The Sunset Tree about his own personal experiences, people start relating to him for his own experiences, as opposed to for the stories he is telling. And the relationship changes. I don't have a problem with that, and clearly nor do the rest of you, but that's the problem that the author has, not that the band got to hi-fi or popular for him. It's not that more people are relating to JD, it's how they're doing it.

One: I found this very interesting. I always find stories about relating to fictions interesting. Yeah, I've been to a shopping mall mentioned in a Hold Steady song, and tried to chase down exactly which entrance the character came in, and yeah, it was just a mall without any revolving doors and all my friends looked at me funny. I guess fictions only can really be in the space when you hear them late at night and get shivers and just feel so damn lucky to be able to have these feelings now and everything is a a little bit more okay because it all led up to this moment!
Ahem, sorry. Transcendent fictions inevitably fail in being transposed into the real world, and that's alright. It's just...the article sounds so lonely...

Two: Ever since I read that New York article, I have felt so guilty about being so intense in my fandom for an actual person. John's existence means a lot to me. Sometimes, the thought of JD is what gets me out of bed in the mornings. And I know that that's a tremendously unfair burden to place on someone. I'm trying my best to stop it. I don't know.

Oh, that's a good point, shlack. I guess for me (this is going to sound awful and derisive but I really don't mean it that way) the biographical work doesn't feel any more like personally relating to JD than the fictional work. For me, all tMG songs exist in a sort of fictional space of heightened physical sensation driven by a distinctive narrative voice that tends to hover around a general set of characteristics & it's that narrative voice that I relate to, occasionally aspire to, and occasionally depend upon (The article is actually quite perceptive in that respect – the pronoun 'I' is crucial to tMG). Maybe I am just an awful narcissist but that fictional space tends to be mostly shaped by my own experiences (when I listen to TST, for example, I posit myself as the narrator describing my own abuse [albeit it was of a different sort]) and illustrated with an aesthetic of what I happen to know about any geographical locations named therein and random stray details about JD himself.

Of course there are also exceptions – 'Pale Green Things' and 'Mathew 25:21' come to mind – where I feel more like I'm listening to an incredibly personal one-on-one confession. Those also happen to be the songs that turn me into an awful blubbering mess of tears and emotion, so, you know. I suppose that, as far as the whole the idea of having related to JD personally through his biographical work goes, I have a sort of gut reaction to it like 'sure, I know the song written about it, but I don't know the actual experience of it' – by which I don't mean ~you can never know someone else's subjective experience~ or other such nonsense, but rather: those are the sort of things you can't know about a person without a long time of teasing out the details with them and seeing the shape of their character in day-to-day interactions & generally can't be expressed in 3 to 4 minutes (with time allotted for a deceptively long outro). So the biographical songs aren't just 'songs about abuse' or 'songs about drug addiction' but songs about coping with abuse, fighting addiction, figuring out just what to keep to yourself and what sort of tone to use so as to retain yr dignity while trying to explain these things to some (potentially scary unsympathetic unknowable) other. And, well: coping with circumstances that are generally unfavorable and doing your best to find the right words to explain it is what most tMG songs are about, imo

In light of all that, though, I do quite like the point that you soundingonlyatnightasyousleep bring up, about trying (and generally failling) to tie fiction to the real & physical, and lonely is the right word for it. When I read your story, sounding, I can't help but think of the dark corners of the shopping mall ceiling where not even the flourescent light of consumerist capitalism can brighten (but maybe if I actually visited the mall I would find quite the opposite, who knows).

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all the while ignoring the far bigger segment of the fan base that waits anxiously but patiently for new work, and fill halls on two continents for a show of almost entirely new work, set to a soundtrack of middle-aged women chanting in latin. didn't see anyone pining for lo-fi in that particular theater, which had some of the best acoustics i've ever heard.

god, i love this sentence.

WC

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let's get dressed up in costumes and dance by the bar.

Got this song for a reward from Kickstarter for this project. Sean Bonnette from Andrew Jackson Jihad playing Ethiopians. I did the video, which is not sanctioned by Sean Bonnette, Andrew Jackson Jihad, the Mountain Goats, John Darnielle, Robert DeNiro, Martin Scorsese or anybody else. Hope you enjoy it as much as I do.

[youtu.be]

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The first thing that distinguishes a writer is that he is most alive when alone. - Martin Amis

Quote
Wild Creature
Got this song for a reward from Kickstarter for this project. Sean Bonnette from Andrew Jackson Jihad playing Ethiopians. I did the video, which is not sanctioned by Sean Bonnette, Andrew Jackson Jihad, the Mountain Goats, John Darnielle, Robert DeNiro, Martin Scorsese or anybody else. Hope you enjoy it as much as I do.

[youtu.be]

Really enjoying this. It's interesting hearing Sean over dreamy synth. Thanks for sharing!

Nice touch with Raging Bull, by the way.

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I make videos for the interwebs. Click to taste the insanity.
My band has a Facebook. This is the link.