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        <title>National Defense Authorization Act is a bad idea.</title>
        <description>http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/315413

So from what I gather, the government can scoop you up for however long they want if you commit an &quot;anti-government act&quot;. If this passes what is to stop the Occupy protesters from starting to turn violent as soon as the police move in - especially when they could be given, in theory, lifetime jail terms for protesting?

This could be really bad.</description>
        <link>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127133#msg-127133</link>
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            <guid>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,138164#msg-138164</guid>
            <title>Re: National Defense Authorization Act is a bad idea.</title>
            <link>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,138164#msg-138164</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ <a href="http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/11/30/senate-strips-indefinite-detention-from-2012-ndaa/"  rel="nofollow">go congress!</a>]]></description>
            <dc:creator>JesusChristILoveYouYesIDo</dc:creator>
            <category>Whole Wide World</category>
            <pubDate>Sat, 01 Dec 2012 09:02:13 -0800</pubDate>
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            <guid>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,128140#msg-128140</guid>
            <title>Re: National Defense Authorization Act is a bad idea.</title>
            <link>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,128140#msg-128140</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ I think anyone who is familiar with my posts here knows what I think about this.]]></description>
            <dc:creator>simonfox</dc:creator>
            <category>Whole Wide World</category>
            <pubDate>Mon, 02 Jan 2012 19:55:29 -0800</pubDate>
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            <guid>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127661#msg-127661</guid>
            <title>Re: National Defense Authorization Act is a bad idea.</title>
            <link>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127661#msg-127661</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ <blockquote class="bbcode"><div><small>Quote<br/></small><strong>Kathaariancode</strong><br/>
<blockquote class="bbcode"><div><small>Quote<br/></small><strong>hexakosioi</strong><br/>
[<a href="http://www.salon.com/2011/12/16/three_myths_about_the_detention_bill/singleton/"  rel="nofollow">www.salon.com</a>]<br />
this is the best article on all of this i've come across, it explains the differences between the 2001 AUMF and the new ndaa</div></blockquote>
<br />
That does quite a bit to clarify for me, thanks for posting! It also exposes one of the unintended benefits of the bill. As the writer explains, the bill gives the President powers of detainees that the Obama and Bush administration have argued were inferred by the AUMF since it's passage, but having that clause written in law gives the Supreme Court to check the constitutionality of the law if it so desires.</div></blockquote>
your welcome, i didn't think about the supreme court having that power, hopefully they will use it, i've been reading alot about this bill, it really is scary all these powers were given contradicting the bill of rights, i hope nothing bad comes of it, innocence until proven guilty and a fair trial are such a central part of a free society it's really disturbing they now have stuff like this passed into law]]></description>
            <dc:creator>hexakosioi</dc:creator>
            <category>Whole Wide World</category>
            <pubDate>Mon, 19 Dec 2011 16:49:10 -0800</pubDate>
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            <guid>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127648#msg-127648</guid>
            <title>Re: National Defense Authorization Act is a bad idea.</title>
            <link>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127648#msg-127648</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ <blockquote class="bbcode"><div><small>Quote<br/></small><strong>hexakosioi</strong><br/>
[<a href="http://www.salon.com/2011/12/16/three_myths_about_the_detention_bill/singleton/"  rel="nofollow">www.salon.com</a>]<br />
this is the best article on all of this i've come across, it explains the differences between the 2001 AUMF and the new ndaa</div></blockquote>
<br />
That does quite a bit to clarify for me, thanks for posting! It also exposes one of the unintended benefits of the bill. As the writer explains, the bill gives the President powers of detainees that the Obama and Bush administration have argued were inferred by the AUMF since it's passage, but having that clause written in law gives the Supreme Court to check the constitutionality of the law if it so desires.]]></description>
            <dc:creator>Kathaariancode</dc:creator>
            <category>Whole Wide World</category>
            <pubDate>Mon, 19 Dec 2011 09:49:20 -0800</pubDate>
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            <guid>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127643#msg-127643</guid>
            <title>Re: National Defense Authorization Act is a bad idea.</title>
            <link>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127643#msg-127643</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ You lost me at Hitler's brain.]]></description>
            <dc:creator>fever</dc:creator>
            <category>Whole Wide World</category>
            <pubDate>Mon, 19 Dec 2011 01:25:33 -0800</pubDate>
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            <guid>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127623#msg-127623</guid>
            <title>Re: National Defense Authorization Act is a bad idea.</title>
            <link>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127623#msg-127623</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ [<a href="http://www.salon.com/2011/12/16/three_myths_about_the_detention_bill/singleton/"  rel="nofollow">www.salon.com</a>]<br />
this is the best article on all of this i've come across, it explains the differences between the 2001 AUMF and the new ndaa]]></description>
            <dc:creator>hexakosioi</dc:creator>
            <category>Whole Wide World</category>
            <pubDate>Sun, 18 Dec 2011 10:49:11 -0800</pubDate>
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        <item>
            <guid>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127608#msg-127608</guid>
            <title>Re: National Defense Authorization Act is a bad idea.</title>
            <link>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127608#msg-127608</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ <blockquote class="bbcode"><div><small>Quote<br/></small><strong>Kathaariancode</strong><br/>
What about part (e) of 1031 then? Does the part about &quot;existing law&quot; include constitutional protections against the detainment of US citizens? <br />
<br />
The part I'm referring to:<br />
(e) Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities, relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States.<br />
<br />
Also: Suddenly hoping rather strongly Ron Paul receives the nomination for the GOP ticket. Else there will definitely be one more vote for Mickey Mouse come November of 2012.</div></blockquote>
this is confusing also, it seems to contradict other parts of the bill, i think what it is referring to is that the executive branch has ultimate authority in these matters and that this bill doesn't challenge that authority: [<a href="http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-107publ40/html/PLAW-107publ40.htm"  rel="nofollow">www.gpo.gov</a>]<br />
also, i definitely hope ron paul wins the nomination, i voted for obama in 08 but now i feel like i was duped and that he was sold out to the bankers and globalists all along]]></description>
            <dc:creator>hexakosioi</dc:creator>
            <category>Whole Wide World</category>
            <pubDate>Sat, 17 Dec 2011 14:33:32 -0800</pubDate>
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            <guid>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127605#msg-127605</guid>
            <title>Re: National Defense Authorization Act is a bad idea.</title>
            <link>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127605#msg-127605</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ What about part (e) of 1031 then? Does the part about &quot;existing law&quot; include constitutional protections against the detainment of US citizens? <br />
<br />
The part I'm referring to:<br />
(e) Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities, relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States.<br />
<br />
Also: Suddenly hoping rather strongly Ron Paul receives the nomination for the GOP ticket. Else there will definitely be one more vote for Mickey Mouse come November of 2012.]]></description>
            <dc:creator>Kathaariancode</dc:creator>
            <category>Whole Wide World</category>
            <pubDate>Sat, 17 Dec 2011 03:50:59 -0800</pubDate>
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        <item>
            <guid>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127604#msg-127604</guid>
            <title>Re: National Defense Authorization Act is a bad idea.</title>
            <link>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127604#msg-127604</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ That's exactly the part I thought had been added as an amendment, and that's some tricky wording. I wish this bill would've received more media attention, its really sort of scary how little coverage this bill got, and what's even more scary is a government with the powers of SOPA and the NDAA.]]></description>
            <dc:creator>Kathaariancode</dc:creator>
            <category>Whole Wide World</category>
            <pubDate>Sat, 17 Dec 2011 03:23:07 -0800</pubDate>
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        <item>
            <guid>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127600#msg-127600</guid>
            <title>Re: National Defense Authorization Act is a bad idea.</title>
            <link>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127600#msg-127600</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ <blockquote class="bbcode"><div><small>Quote<br/></small><strong>Kathaariancode</strong><br/>
Thanks for posting that! Glad to see for certain that the detainee provisions won't affect US citizens.</div></blockquote>
your welcome...but actually the npr article is false, the amendment to remove the parts of the ndaa that stated that a us citizen could be indefinitely detained without trial was defeated 2-1, there is the curious wording on page 430: &quot;(b) APPLICABILITY TO UNITED STATES CITIZENS AND LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS.—10 (1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS.—The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.&quot;<br />
this is like asking if robbing a bank is illegal and being told &quot;it isn't required that you rob a bank&quot;,<br />
and in other parts of the ndaa it casts a wide net for who can be indefinitely detained without trial without making any exception for american citizens, and it passed on dec. 15, the 220th anniv. of the passing of the bill of rights, WTF!!<br />
[<a href="http://www.examiner.com/charleston-conservative-in-charleston-sc/tim-scott-joe-wilson-vote-for-military-detention-of-us-citizens"  rel="nofollow">www.examiner.com</a>]<br />
[<a href="http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/constitution/10223-rights-activists-appalled-as-senate-passes-prison-without-trial-bill"  rel="nofollow">www.thenewamerican.com</a>]<br />
[<a href="http://www.fox19.com/story/16336829/reality-check-it-was-the-obama-administration-that-demanded-power-to-detain-us-citizens-indefinately-under-ndaa"  rel="nofollow">www.fox19.com</a>]]]></description>
            <dc:creator>hexakosioi</dc:creator>
            <category>Whole Wide World</category>
            <pubDate>Fri, 16 Dec 2011 14:28:33 -0800</pubDate>
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            <guid>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127586#msg-127586</guid>
            <title>Re: National Defense Authorization Act is a bad idea.</title>
            <link>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127586#msg-127586</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ <blockquote class="bbcode"><div><small>Quote<br/></small><strong>dollabill</strong><br/>
hmm didn't work for me... can you just do a CTRL+F for nazi for me?</div></blockquote>
<br />
can you nazi for yourself?<br />
<br />
<img src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_EmaLuvLMfvM/RxATDA6iUwI/AAAAAAAAAPY/0RuakMTPFQw/s320/Dull+Schicksal-+They+Saved+Hitler%27s+Brain.jpg" class="bbcode" border="0" />]]></description>
            <dc:creator>mike5998</dc:creator>
            <category>Whole Wide World</category>
            <pubDate>Fri, 16 Dec 2011 07:22:50 -0800</pubDate>
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            <guid>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127582#msg-127582</guid>
            <title>Re: National Defense Authorization Act is a bad idea.</title>
            <link>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127582#msg-127582</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ Thanks for posting that! Glad to see for certain that the detainee provisions won't affect US citizens.]]></description>
            <dc:creator>Kathaariancode</dc:creator>
            <category>Whole Wide World</category>
            <pubDate>Fri, 16 Dec 2011 04:08:58 -0800</pubDate>
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            <guid>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127561#msg-127561</guid>
            <title>Re: National Defense Authorization Act is a bad idea.</title>
            <link>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127561#msg-127561</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ <blockquote class="bbcode"><div><small>Quote<br/></small><strong>dollabill</strong><br/>
hmm didn't work for me... can you just do a CTRL+F for nazi for me?</div></blockquote>
[<a href="http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112s1867es/pdf/BILLS-112s1867es.pdf"  rel="nofollow">www.gpo.gov</a>]<br />
i was gonna try to read it all but i gave up on page 20 or so, its mostly gobbledygook, its sections 1031 and 1032 with the real heavy nazi shit]]></description>
            <dc:creator>hexakosioi</dc:creator>
            <category>Whole Wide World</category>
            <pubDate>Thu, 15 Dec 2011 17:29:24 -0800</pubDate>
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            <guid>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127560#msg-127560</guid>
            <title>Re: National Defense Authorization Act is a bad idea.</title>
            <link>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127560#msg-127560</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ hmm didn't work for me... can you just do a CTRL+F for nazi for me?]]></description>
            <dc:creator>dollabill</dc:creator>
            <category>Whole Wide World</category>
            <pubDate>Thu, 15 Dec 2011 17:02:13 -0800</pubDate>
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        <item>
            <guid>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127559#msg-127559</guid>
            <title>Re: National Defense Authorization Act is a bad idea.</title>
            <link>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127559#msg-127559</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ [<a href="http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:S.1867"  rel="nofollow">thomas.loc.gov</a>]:<br />
it is actually posted online, its over 900 pages long, but im gonna read this bitch]]></description>
            <dc:creator>hexakosioi</dc:creator>
            <category>Whole Wide World</category>
            <pubDate>Thu, 15 Dec 2011 14:24:25 -0800</pubDate>
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        <item>
            <guid>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127558#msg-127558</guid>
            <title>Re: National Defense Authorization Act is a bad idea.</title>
            <link>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127558#msg-127558</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ <blockquote class="bbcode"><div><small>Quote<br/></small><strong>Kathaariancode</strong><br/>
<blockquote class="bbcode"><div><small>Quote<br/></small><strong>NPR</strong><br/>
The vote was 283-136 and reflected the strong support for annual legislation that authorizes money for the men and women of the military as well as weapons systems and the millions of jobs they generate in lawmakers' districts.<br />
<br />
It was a rare instance of bipartisanship in a bitterly divided Congress. The Senate is expected to pass the measure on Thursday and send it to Obama.<br />
<br />
The House vote came just hours after the administration abandoned a veto threat over provisions dealing with the handling of terrorism suspects.<br />
<br />
Applying pressure on House and Senate negotiators working on the bill last week, Obama and senior members of his national security team, including Defense Secretary Leon Panetta and Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, had sought modifications in the detainee provisions.<br />
<br />
Negotiators announced the changes late Monday, clearing the way for White House acceptance.<br />
<br />
In a statement, press secretary Jay Carney said the new bill &quot;does not challenge the president's ability to collect intelligence, incapacitate dangerous terrorists and protect the American people.&quot;<br />
<br />
Specifically, the bill would require that the military take custody of a suspect deemed to be a member of al-Qaida or its affiliates and who is involved in plotting or committing attacks on the United States. <b>There is an exemption for U.S. citizens.</b></div></blockquote>
<br />
I still don't care for the bill, but according to this article at least we dodged a bullet on what would've been one of the biggest violations of our rights in our time.</div></blockquote>
well thats a good thing if its true, but theres no way to verify it because they only post bills online after they pass, and the jay carney quote only talks about the ways the bill challenges the presidency's ultimate authority in these matters, not that it is a violation of peoples rights, if it is true that there is exemption for us citizens, thats a good thing, that would make it a redundancy of the patriot act, wouldnt it? anyway, it is still a violation of human rights, we shouldnt shrug it off just because it doesnt violate our rights, only other peoples]]></description>
            <dc:creator>hexakosioi</dc:creator>
            <category>Whole Wide World</category>
            <pubDate>Thu, 15 Dec 2011 14:17:13 -0800</pubDate>
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            <guid>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127555#msg-127555</guid>
            <title>Re: National Defense Authorization Act is a bad idea.</title>
            <link>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127555#msg-127555</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ <blockquote class="bbcode"><div><small>Quote<br/></small><strong>jacobfiala</strong><br/>
but yeah, this act is a horrible idea. have no fear though, it won't go through. (unless they change it alot)</div></blockquote>
lol, I stand corrected]]></description>
            <dc:creator>jacobfiala</dc:creator>
            <category>Whole Wide World</category>
            <pubDate>Thu, 15 Dec 2011 10:21:13 -0800</pubDate>
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            <guid>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127550#msg-127550</guid>
            <title>Re: National Defense Authorization Act is a bad idea.</title>
            <link>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127550#msg-127550</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ Well, if it is the case that they made US citizens exempt, and it's also the case that making US citizens exempt from the language in the bill regarding detainees is an instance of softening the bill up, then it follows that Congress did soften the bill up, and since Obama did abandon his veto, he would be able to make that claim. If I'm missing something please let me know, but this is just what I have gathered.<br />
<br />
An important distinction: I don't support this bill, since I think that language regarding detainees would violate human rights, but I was under the impression that the administration's opposition was rooted in violations of civil rights, not human rights. <br />
<br />
The fact that they changed the language should be considered a major victory, since the margins it was passed with in the Senate were fully capable of overriding any veto on the part of Obama.]]></description>
            <dc:creator>Kathaariancode</dc:creator>
            <category>Whole Wide World</category>
            <pubDate>Thu, 15 Dec 2011 09:10:54 -0800</pubDate>
        </item>
        <item>
            <guid>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127547#msg-127547</guid>
            <title>Re: National Defense Authorization Act is a bad idea.</title>
            <link>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127547#msg-127547</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ Yeah, Obama didn't veto it because he said they &quot;softened&quot; it up... 8-)]]></description>
            <dc:creator>dollabill</dc:creator>
            <category>Whole Wide World</category>
            <pubDate>Thu, 15 Dec 2011 08:18:11 -0800</pubDate>
        </item>
        <item>
            <guid>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127542#msg-127542</guid>
            <title>Re: National Defense Authorization Act is a bad idea.</title>
            <link>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127542#msg-127542</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ <blockquote class="bbcode"><div><small>Quote<br/></small><strong>NPR</strong><br/>
The vote was 283-136 and reflected the strong support for annual legislation that authorizes money for the men and women of the military as well as weapons systems and the millions of jobs they generate in lawmakers' districts.<br />
<br />
It was a rare instance of bipartisanship in a bitterly divided Congress. The Senate is expected to pass the measure on Thursday and send it to Obama.<br />
<br />
The House vote came just hours after the administration abandoned a veto threat over provisions dealing with the handling of terrorism suspects.<br />
<br />
Applying pressure on House and Senate negotiators working on the bill last week, Obama and senior members of his national security team, including Defense Secretary Leon Panetta and Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, had sought modifications in the detainee provisions.<br />
<br />
Negotiators announced the changes late Monday, clearing the way for White House acceptance.<br />
<br />
In a statement, press secretary Jay Carney said the new bill &quot;does not challenge the president's ability to collect intelligence, incapacitate dangerous terrorists and protect the American people.&quot;<br />
<br />
Specifically, the bill would require that the military take custody of a suspect deemed to be a member of al-Qaida or its affiliates and who is involved in plotting or committing attacks on the United States. <b>There is an exemption for U.S. citizens.</b></div></blockquote>
<br />
I still don't care for the bill, but according to this article at least we dodged a bullet on what would've been one of the biggest violations of our rights in our time.]]></description>
            <dc:creator>Kathaariancode</dc:creator>
            <category>Whole Wide World</category>
            <pubDate>Thu, 15 Dec 2011 07:06:46 -0800</pubDate>
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            <guid>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127539#msg-127539</guid>
            <title>Re: National Defense Authorization Act is a bad idea.</title>
            <link>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127539#msg-127539</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ if this passes, i'm going to a park with a couple signs.]]></description>
            <dc:creator>mike5998</dc:creator>
            <category>Whole Wide World</category>
            <pubDate>Thu, 15 Dec 2011 07:02:52 -0800</pubDate>
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            <guid>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127530#msg-127530</guid>
            <title>Re: National Defense Authorization Act is a bad idea.</title>
            <link>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127530#msg-127530</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ it passed the house today, wow, now it only needs to pass in the senate, and the white house has stated it won't veto the bill, i couldnt see any mention of it ANY major news organization articles, apparently the nullification of the bill of rights isnt a very big story]]></description>
            <dc:creator>hexakosioi</dc:creator>
            <category>Whole Wide World</category>
            <pubDate>Wed, 14 Dec 2011 23:02:16 -0800</pubDate>
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        <item>
            <guid>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127166#msg-127166</guid>
            <title>Re: National Defense Authorization Act is a bad idea.</title>
            <link>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127166#msg-127166</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ @WC: <br />
<br />
you mentioned this lady has a $120k debt, with the intention of studying/working Civil Law, a not very high paid job. Now, i've no idea whatsoever about the way that student loan and Universities work in America so i am approaching this from the wonderful standppoint of ignorance, BUT, if the course she studied cost $120k and there's little chance she'll move into a career that will allow her to pay that off then why does the course cost so much to start with?<br />
<br />
edit: just read your second post regarding the cost of loans. I guess my question isn't aimed at you, but at the education department of your govt. (tu)<br />
<br />
@general rant:<br />
<br />
I know that people have unrealistic expectations of what they may earn when they leave Uni, especially if they studied a degree that isn't historically well paid, but i'm concerned (and this is from a UK point of view, with fees going up to £9k per year pretty much across the board) that this will then stop people doing such degrees... it will make people think twice about studying important jobs that don't pay well. People don't (and shouldn't) go to Uni just to earn big bucks upon leaving, and so having increased costs only seems to prevent those who want to go for other reasons. Such as learning's sake. <br />
<br />
The rich can still do whatever the fuck they want, at no real cost to themselves.<br />
<br />
Disclaimer: this doesn't have much to do with the occupy movement, to which WC was referring... it's late. i was ranting... terribly sorry!]]></description>
            <dc:creator>betamax</dc:creator>
            <category>Whole Wide World</category>
            <pubDate>Sun, 04 Dec 2011 15:05:05 -0800</pubDate>
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            <guid>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127165#msg-127165</guid>
            <title>Re: National Defense Authorization Act is a bad idea.</title>
            <link>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127165#msg-127165</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ my feeling is maybe there is good reason for people going apeshit, not just those who have massive student loan debts, banks being given trillions, the same banks that run the federal reserve and have been stealing from us and wreaking havoc for the last century, or the wars most americans are against and obama promised to end but have only expanded into several countries now, i just feel like at least people are trying to put up some resistance to all of this the best way they can, whatever personal gripes many of them might have]]></description>
            <dc:creator>hexakosioi</dc:creator>
            <category>Whole Wide World</category>
            <pubDate>Sun, 04 Dec 2011 14:48:35 -0800</pubDate>
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            <guid>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127151#msg-127151</guid>
            <title>Re: National Defense Authorization Act is a bad idea.</title>
            <link>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127151#msg-127151</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ my firat post was strictly for entertainment, although it is very strange to me how well that quote fits them.<br />
<br />
anyway, as for my actual occupy whatever you want beliefs, more power to you. <br />
<br />
I think you'll end up in a good job for which you are qualified, and if you have to work at target or Walgreens until then, I'm sorry about that. and if I'm oversimplifing your suffering, I'm sorry again, I have trouble seeing myself in your shoes. &quot;I was promised a job if I got a degree!&quot; by whom? your parents? teachers? that old lady at church? all of those people have told me some crazy shit! maybe I'm paranoid, but I take everything with a grain of salt. you worked to finish high school, you worked to get into a good college, you're gonna have to work your ass off to find a good job too. <br />
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but you're working your ass off now with the protests and it'll probably help. go for it, and good luck.<br />
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that's where I stand.]]></description>
            <dc:creator>jacobfiala</dc:creator>
            <category>Whole Wide World</category>
            <pubDate>Fri, 02 Dec 2011 21:48:43 -0800</pubDate>
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            <guid>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127148#msg-127148</guid>
            <title>Re: National Defense Authorization Act is a bad idea.</title>
            <link>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127148#msg-127148</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ the world will always need plumbers and garbagemen.<br />
<br />
going to school for years and years, racking up loan after loan, for a job you may not get?<br />
<br />
sounds like buying stocks.<br />
<br />
when they can't get this hypothetical high paying job, nobody wants to sell low.<br />
<br />
they want to keep their worthless stocks in their pockets and occupy parks with other people that played the same stock market poorly.<br />
<br />
meanwhile, the real culprits slink away unscathed, unoccupado.<br />
<br />
schools need to lower their tuitions, school books need to not cost so damn much.  like wc says, loans have to be lower percentage.  <br />
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that way, if you spend 10 years in school, you won't be out so much money when you can't get a job.]]></description>
            <dc:creator>mike5998</dc:creator>
            <category>Whole Wide World</category>
            <pubDate>Fri, 02 Dec 2011 14:14:35 -0800</pubDate>
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            <guid>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127147#msg-127147</guid>
            <title>Re: National Defense Authorization Act is a bad idea.</title>
            <link>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127147#msg-127147</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ [<a href="http://theopenglobe.org/wiki/US_Senate_passes_its_version_of_NDAA_bill,_which_would_allow_military_to_detain_anyone_on_US_soil"  rel="nofollow">theopenglobe.org</a>]<br />
ok maybe i didnt read the whole article and just saw the headline, i am stupid.....but still!!! 93-7 in the senate, wtf!!]]></description>
            <dc:creator>hexakosioi</dc:creator>
            <category>Whole Wide World</category>
            <pubDate>Fri, 02 Dec 2011 14:12:56 -0800</pubDate>
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            <guid>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127146#msg-127146</guid>
            <title>Re: National Defense Authorization Act is a bad idea.</title>
            <link>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127146#msg-127146</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ the big problem i do have w/ student loans these days, which is very different from when I took mine out is the interest rate. I had both private and public loans. the private loans interest rates charged between 6 and 9 percent - not terrible for a private loan but certainly not great. I paid those off 1st.  My public loans all charge interest at between 1.25 and 1.75 percent.  that is good debt to have, and it doesn't really make sense to pay them off too quickly, as you can likely invest that extra money in even conservative investments and beat a 1.75 percent average annual return over 20-25 years.  <br />
<br />
now, when i talk to students or recent grads, their interest rates on <u>public</u> loans is between 6 and 8 percent.  that really hikes things up and balloons your debt pretty quickly if you don't have the luxury to start making interest and principal payments right away to avoid interest accumulation.  that doesn't seem right or fair or even conscionable to me, but i don't see anyone making a stink of this particular point, which I really think is the worst thing that has happened to students over the last 15 years. it's not just the educaton costs have risen, its that the student loan interest rates have skyrocketed, which i would think can really balloon and become almost unmanageable.]]></description>
            <dc:creator>Wild Creature</dc:creator>
            <category>Whole Wide World</category>
            <pubDate>Fri, 02 Dec 2011 13:48:57 -0800</pubDate>
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            <guid>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127145#msg-127145</guid>
            <title>Re: National Defense Authorization Act is a bad idea.</title>
            <link>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127145#msg-127145</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ the protesters seem to be a diverse group, there are probably alot of kids there that mostly just want to be a part of something and many who are basically just bitter about the way their life is going, but i think thats ok either way and that the larger message of the movement is the most important thing, i think there is good reason to be angry just at the state our country is in and the collapse it is headed for, im not really an expert on our economy or anything, i only found out about the federal reserve act and how our economy really works through coverage of the protests, ive spent alot of nights up late watching movies about the federal reserve and the corruption of our government and economic system the past few months and find it all really terrifying, oh and i just saw that that ndaa bill did pass this morning, HOLY F%$#^@!!!!!!!]]></description>
            <dc:creator>hexakosioi</dc:creator>
            <category>Whole Wide World</category>
            <pubDate>Fri, 02 Dec 2011 13:44:52 -0800</pubDate>
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            <guid>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127144#msg-127144</guid>
            <title>Re: National Defense Authorization Act is a bad idea.</title>
            <link>http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?4,127133,127144#msg-127144</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ WC, for the sake of the forum I'm not going to quote your really long post but I am going to respond to it. <br />
<br />
I agree with every point you made. I think one of the biggest enemies are the Universities. I remember my brother showing me how my major averaged around 100k &quot;after graduation&quot; and how he was choosing his major based on those numbers. I would cry for joy if I made even half that amount. <br />
<br />
The universities continue to promise big salaries after you graduate and are charging more and more because they know the kids are just going to take out loans and may not notices. When I was going through college I had to argue every semester with the admissions office because I was being charged a late fee for payment when they were handling all of my student loans. I'd hate to think of what kind of stunts they'd try to pull if I were actually living on campus.<br />
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EDIT: I usually spell check before posting, d'oh!]]></description>
            <dc:creator>dollabill</dc:creator>
            <category>Whole Wide World</category>
            <pubDate>Fri, 02 Dec 2011 13:24:47 -0800</pubDate>
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